🤔 What's best for a new desktop computer with GNU/Linux nowadays? I'm looking for performances (CG arts/Krita), only Free/Libre drivers and around 1K€... Hard to find trusty infos... If you have advice/recommendations, pls lmk.👍
@lelibreauquotidien Too Mini for Digital painting on 4K resolution. I need probably the same perf than for a modern gamer; dedicated CGcard and bigger CPU. Thanks for the link!
@davidrevoy I'm a big fan of System76; but I don't know that I could blanket recommend them without knowing how you intend to use the device.
If you just want to plop down some money and have a pre-built system with support and don't plan on tinkering much or at all, then they seem good for exactly that use case.
I'm not sure how price shakes out internationally; but they do have several options at different price points.
@groovestomp It's a really good option worth studying for sure. I'll look again at their store; I think I saw too many Nvidia based CGgraphics on their catalog and the price tag+delivery just gave me the feeling "not for me/my budget".
I admit I had a crush on the computer case with wood on it ^ ^
@davidrevoy So stylish, right?
The Nvidia stuff is a blessing and a curse.
I *think* they're all Intel CPU's; so you still get integrated GPU if you just want to opt out of Nvidia entirely; but you still end up paying for that unused hardware. :-(
I love that they provide a IME stripper and by default have disabled IME on all their machines since ~2018.
These things are always a tradeoff, right? It seems like they're making reasonable choices and I'm excited for where they're going.
@groovestomp For CGgraphics, a integrated GPU might be a bit weak; or maybe I still have a 2010 mindset and they are now better than GeForce GTX 650 Ti of 2014?... possible. I think I'll have to study that and look at benchmark of modern CGcards.
Yes, it is always a tradeoff looking at all this configs. That's why I was asking publicly in case a magic solution exists somewhere and I missed it. ^ __ ^
Thanks for the feedback!
@davidrevoy If you're in the USA, System76 is one of the "go to" linux hardware vendors. They can / will ship international but customs and VAT can be a problem from what I've heard. Both the desktop and laptop I've gotten from them have been reliable machines.
I have heard good things about Tuxedo comptuers (based in Germany I believe) as well but I don't have any personal or second hand experience with them
@dnwlsn Yep, the price of Tuxedo were way more attractive; but that might be a bias I have with the price display in Euro and Dollar. I saw a lot of Nvidia config and CGcard unfortunately. hard to see a machine with a description claiming the driver are 100% libre; even for those two major Linux hardware vendors. I'll have a look again at their store.
@davidrevoy I know System76 specifically is working towards an entirely free computer, some of their laptops ship with libre BIOS now. So at minimum I'd say they are worth keeping an eye on even if you don't buy one this time around. Unfortunately most vendors do go with the Nvidia GPUs which means proprietary blobs / drivers. 😭
@dnwlsn Thanks, I'll have a look; I had feedback on another channel it's possible to config on their website a AMD graphic setup. I'll check it!
Well: I'm interested to know your sources sincerely because the measured benchmarks always tend to proof something totally different (and that's sad): https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nvidia-nouveau-2019&num=2 (hundreds other: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=search&q=Nouveau ) 😔 I wish the driver would work even just a bit lower in perf than the proprietary (I would accept that) but we are still in a situation where Nouveau has very little of the perfo of the real CGcard ability...
@dendy Thank you for the feedback. Good to know you tested the Free/Libre AMD graphic driver with Krita canvas. I saw many issue in the past with Nouveau and Intel integrated GPU driver that I'm still suspicious of Free/Libre CG drivers now and OpenGL performance/compatibility. What model of CG and CPU do you have?
@dendy Thank you! Your feedback is very useful for my research. Yes, 16GB RAM sounds enough for my need too (that's what I have) and currently my old i7-870 8 x 2.93Ghz really can't compete a 6 x 3.6GHz of the 1600 and your graphic card explode the perf of my old GeForceGTX650Ti. That's sounds like a good config, I'll probably inspire myself from it. thanks for sharing!
@savant I'm not looking for a laptop, but thank you for the reply! I gave to my father and mother in law second hand thinkpad (from https://www.tradediscount.com/ ) with Mint on it; sure they are good machine and it was easy to switch HD to SSD, etc... I like the design "easy to open".
I'll look if Lenovo does Desktop PC, good idea.
@davidrevoy I have some (biased) ideas!
@kyle Haha, 😆 but Purism doesn't do Desktop PC, right? I think I had a quick check last week on website.
@davidrevoy Depends on your form factor I suppose, and whether Librem Mini works or whether you need to slot full-size PCI cards, etc.
@kyle Yep, I need a dedicated badass CGCard and I think they still need room inside the box. Digital painting and Blender 3D needs also a lot of realtime power. I'll look again at the Mini.
@davidrevoy 8th gen Intel NUCs are good machines for a GNU/Linux desktop, I'm quite happy with mine.
They come with Iris 6xx GPU which is very good for what it is, though for a graphics person it still may be too slow I suppose.
10th gen comes with Intel UHD, which is far slower than Iris...
@davidrevoy I would suggest something from Dell (since they're selling laptops with Linux on them), but I don't know the prices they're charging.😕
@Ertain Yes, Dell is high ranked on my list: my 10 years old computer was bought on Dell Pro website (a Dell Vostro 430 with a i7-870 ). I'm still using it and 10 years old with all daily work is exceptional. But it starts to get electric bugs and tired motherboard/power block. Unfortunately! Still, if they still have good reputation that's probably worth studying them again, even going 1,5K budget...Thanks for the idea.
@davidrevoy I believe Bodil tweeted recently about getting a new "Quartz Canyon" Intel NUC that "just worked" under Manjaro linux, including the eGPU https://twitter.com/bodil/status/1318973537613393921
@davidrevoy If you want to go libre all the way, you should look into the Vikings’ workstation. It appears to be the only pre-built desktop computer currently certified to respect your freedom by the FSF, in addition to fitting in your price range. Most other computers won’t even boot without non-libre software, but if this doesn’t cut it, it might end up being a necessary evil for you.
@tirifto Thank you. First time I read about this one. The budget sounds reasonable; but "offered without a discrete GPU" is a killer for graphism. Digital painting and 3D require config like for gamers, real time heavy computing with no lag :)
I think by "only Free/Libre" driver; the thing I want to avoid is a large non-free thing like the Nvidia-driver. I know it is really hard to avoid a firmware or two on chipsets using product of the market (and not designed specific free/libre hardware)
@makhiscal I'm not looking for laptop, but thanks for the link because I saw they also have a desktop PC in AMD or Intel on their catalog; Kymera VENTUS .
I made a simulation and the price is at a first glance unfortunately not super attractive to my budget. But I'll keep it as an option in my comparison; I might be wrong.
@libreture Very interesting and first time I get a feedback about this online shop. I had a look at the two desktop: the Hades and the Poseidon (fun fun, I like "Hades" name; very goth and it reminds me Saint Seya manga). Unfortunately, very Intel+Nvidia centric configurator. I think I'll want to avoid Nvidia-proprietary-driver for the discrete GPU card.
Ah, good point.
I think the "most for the buck" is a home made computer you can make a pretty beefy on for a good price around an AMD ryzen and a radeon card
@Arioch Yep. Maybe this is the wise path. Thank you.
@davidrevoy Maybe Tuxedo computers? It's the only EU-based (Germany) GNU/Linux computers manufacturer I know.
Both Purism and System78 are us-based, which makes shipping fees + VAT + customs fees + 'filing fees' (a.k.a chronoposte racketeering fees) expensive as hell. Unless you have a shitload on chance to avoid those extra fees…
I had to pay 46€ fees (NOT including the 30€ shipping fees) for my TypeMatrix (≈ 100€) when I buyed it directly from the manufacturer to not give money to amazon…
@devnull Maybe, I know the brand and team. We tried to work together in the past for sponsoring hardware on Pepper&Carrot but I received a hardware that wasn't good for CG at the end and instead of posting a negative review on my blog I prefered to send it back. I probably should contact them again because we tried to continue this sponsoring and the employee in charge changed, I then proposed to visit them in Germany, then the COVID. Situation got a bit lost. I'll look at their website again.
@davidrevoy Another option is building your own desktop (or paying someone to build it), choosing exactly what you need. It would be either less expensive or you cet better harvfdware for the same price, but there will be no "official" (online, or whatever) support for GNU/Linux, just compatibility.
@devnull Yep, it looks like I'll take this path (building a setup). Thanks for the feedback!
@davidrevoy You're welcome.
@davidrevoy I would go full AMD and build it myself. And I would have a look whether I can reuse parts from my old computer
@waweic Thank you, yes; it sounds like a very wise path to do economy. I saw online offers (often attractive) of "upgrade kits" with a motherboard+CPU.
Sure, I can reuse already the SSD, the DVD+R drive and the case of my actual computer. That's still an economy.
@davidrevoy Une machine pré-assemblée ou pas ? Pour une grosse CG sans emmerdes sous Linux faudra prendre du AMD (Nvidia fait encore plus gros mais c’est forcément des pilotes proprio si tu veux en profiter). Pour le CPU de nos jours AMD est clairement à préférer autant pour les perfs que pour le prix. Un SSD me semble indispensable, si tu montes le PC tu peux ptêt récupérer les disques du précédent.
Pour le reste, je connais pas assez l’usage pour savoir combien de RAM il faudrait, et pour la carte mère et l’alim’ ça dépends du reste. S’il faut du Wi-Fi y’a des cartes à 35€ très bien (Gigabyte notamment, sur base de puce Intel donc pilotes libres).
En pré-assemblé ça sera plus cher et difficile à trouver…
@breizh Merci pour le conseil. Oui, je crois que vue le délire de Nvidia sur leur driver graphique proprio et les bugs à la pelle que je mange avec ma GeForce GTX 650 Ti de 2014; j'aimerai adopter du AMD pour le GPU.
Je regarderai la solution à assembler, j'ai déjà fait deux fois et c'était pas méchant ; mais j'ai cependant toujours peur de faire des mauvais mélanges ds configs mal refroidies ou mal équilibrés...
@davidrevoy pcw gives some great beasts with linux out of the box.
would recommande to get some help on building a tower with an old Gnu wizard after giving him or her a budget though. :)
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