I will stop here with #Gab by removing the block feature inside the app in the next release.
- I didn't receive a reply from Google policy team about a potential ban of the application.
- Without the previous risk, I clearly think that's not my role. I can't hard-code instance blocks especially when every tools are here for that.
- If you want a strong block, it's in the hands of social network developers or your admins.
@fedilab bye fedilab.
Glad to know you're cool with your work being used to connect fascists.
Sure, we can block them here, but they can still have their echo chamber where they build each other up using your software.
And, yeah sure, they can access through other means, but you gave them another avenue of access that you could have stopped.
You're shit. Good to know.
Does your social network plan to ban them (devs)? No, afaik. Did you plan to change/move too?
@fedilab my app has banned them.
And my admin has too.
So everything is perfect :)
Because you're giving them ability to exist.
Which means you're condoning them and their actions.
The whole point of federated social media like this was so that we could take back control and have it be more personal and less corporate.
And you decided to act like a corporation, by deciding their clicks were more important than user safety.
Thanks for aiding fascists!!!!
Think further. Gab isn't the only instance that tolerates content that shouldn't be tolerated. Hate speech isn't only done by users of Gab. This is a bigger question. A very basic question about moderation on the fediverse. App devs can't moderate the whole fediverse, neither should they. Instead, instance admins can and already do moderation even better. They have the tools, devs don't.
All in all I consider @fedilab s decision as fully reasonable.
@magicalmilly @jeybe @fedilab Exactly. There's always gonna be the single-user sockpuppet instances used for harassment purposes, but the main instances such as FSE & Librem can easily be blocked on an app level, same as it can on a federation level.
We need to be as intolerant of fascists as they are of us if we're to successfully defend ourselves. That means putting up as many defenses as possible on all levels, even if it's just as simple as adding a deadbolt to the front door.
Nevertheless, I still think moderation should be done by istance admins, as everything else makes things more complicated and blockheavy.
@jeybe @magicalmilly @fedilab Librem *is* a Nazi instance due to how Purism said they wouldn't moderate it. They originally disabled reporting altogether & said to report problems to the police, but due to outcry, they re-enabled it & said they wouldn't do anything unless absolutely necessary.
No ones been able to push 'em into real action & Nazis have since started taking over the instance, so most have already defederated from them as a result.
And in regards to the last part, as I've said, the goal is to set up as many blockades as possible in order to discourage them. Complicated or not, it's nothing compared to the consequences of inaction. We're not asking for a developer's life here. We're asking them to take 5 minutes to help save ours.
@magicalmilly Jeez, Fedilab's responses here are somehow worse than the fact they won't do anything.
"Yeah, we could lift a finger...but [X] isn't going to, so why should we?"
Why do so many devs completely ignore what marginalized people say and then say, "So everything is perfect"?
Wow... Thats really disheartening to hear from the app I use for mobile. I understand the stance of "There are already tools for that", but this isn't some new policy that could affect many. Its a single group/forum that has hosted so much hate against our communities.
I live in socal, and Blaze Bernstein was killed in my old city last year. His death as a jewish queer teenager by the group Atomwaffen was lauded across Gab as a victory for white supremacists. The posts were never hindered, censured, or stopped by the admins or host. <----- These are the people your choosing to take a stand for and say, "Hey, maybe some people do want the access to reach these people".
@magicalmilly @Electronic_Bunny @fedilab Admitting it's something you don't have to control is different than standing for.
Fedilab is a tool. Tom is coding a tool. That's all. Like is the computer you and Gab users use to type your disrespectful comments. Should we remove computers because some people can type idiot things on it?
We need to be a minimum serious.
You won't eradicate fascism by acting like a fascist (wanting to eradicate someone else opinion is fascist). [1/2]
How is blocking a single known server the same as getting rid of all computers?
What your describing isn't the situation. We are talking about a single community that has had a history of murder and extreme violence.
"Should we remove computers because some people can type idiot things on it?" is one of the most dishonest arguments/comparisons on this issue.
@magicalmilly That's unnecessarily mean
@USBloveDog so is allowing nazis.
glad you think me being blunt about a mistake is worse than the fact that he's going to let nazis on his platform because he's too lazy to remove them.
@magicalmilly Gab has some Nazis on it. Twitter has some Nazis, the leaders of the murderous genocidal Iranian government, and many other horrible people.
The internet was created to allow communication and little else. The best answer to bad people posting bad things is replying to them intelligently to rebut what they said. Not censorship. Censorship is the easy answer that never works.
@fossviking this isn't a government.
Ban the people you don't want from being in the group.
@magicalmilly "this" is a collection of servers using open source code, who can rewrite that code as they wish under GPL and other licenses. "this" isn't a proprietary service like Twitter or Facebook where the owner has the last word. you can block who you want, but it won't stop anyone else from using ActivityPub or Mastodon
Fedilab embraced the true meaning of openness and decided to do the right thing by not censoring at the app level, as it should be dependant on your admin.
Aka: if your admin will block gab, and you won't see any connection to gab using ANY APP regardless, then you are fake outraged because someone is doing something you don't like.
Grow up and stop acting like a spoiled child.
Inb4 called nazi quadroon, of which, I am not.
@fedilab I think you took the right decision. I don't think it's your role to judge who I have to be able to see or not. Your role is to give me access to Fediverse, that's all. Thanks for taking that much care about users of your app, Tom! I really appreciate all the hard work you make with Fedilab!
@fedilab so was your initial motivation for blocking sign-ins to Gab's instance just to cover yourself in the case Google banned your application?
@fedilab Sorry, I'm confused, can we still manually block instances / users?
Yes, the application has all tools for that, you can even report bad behaviors to admins.
It isn't fair for devs to have to make political decisions in public and inevitably be harassed by users no matter which decision they make.
Some app devs chose to block/others didn't.
All instance blocks can be implemented by admins anyway so no one loses blocking abilities.
Harassment of devs on this issue no matter which side they take is unfair and could lead to devs not partaking as fully in public discussions.
Being a dev is not intrinsically political.
@switchingsocial i'd say it was never true for any technology.
best to err in favour of advancing that tech in ways that give decisionmaking power to those directly affected by the decision, albeit perhaps making the more dangerous decisions opt-in.
(but that too is obviously a politically charged stance)
To mangle a famous phrase, "you might not be interested in politics, but politics is interested in you".
Social media is innately political, and so is development work around it, because it affects who can use it and how their message can spread.
Social networks are now, whether we like it or not, powerful political weapons, and those who design weapons bear some responsibility for how they are likely to be used.
He doesn't "design a weapon", he designs an app to use social networks.
Also, what if he decides to add Switter to the blacklist?
(also, I see your instance mastodon.at only blocked a handful of other instances, shouldn't you get involved with your own moderation before explaining to others, or are there no nazi instances to block actually?)
A social network can be a weapon if it encourages mass murder (which Gab does, and the Pittsburgh Synagogue mass murderer was a Gab member).
Slippery slope goes both ways: if you allow promotion of mass murder, why not allow spam?
No network operates with zero censorship, there's always some kind of abuse that needs to be blocked (e.g. denial of service).
I don't run mastodon.at, I'm just an end user. I have no control over what the admin does.
in fact, most of the software you are using disclaims responsibility for your use of the technology.
IN NO EVENT UNLESS REQUIRED BY APPLICABLE LAW OR AGREED TO IN WRITING WILL ANY COPYRIGHT HOLDER, OR ANY OTHER PARTY WHO MODIFIES AND/OR CONVEYS THE PROGRAM AS PERMITTED ABOVE, BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR DAMAGES, INCLUDING ANY GENERAL, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE PROGRAM (INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO LOSS OF DATA OR DATA BEING RENDERED INACCURATE OR LOSSES SUSTAINED BY YOU OR THIRD PARTIES OR A FAILURE OF THE PROGRAM TO OPERATE WITH ANY OTHER PROGRAMS), EVEN IF SUCH HOLDER OR OTHER PARTY HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.
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tech is given for free under these conditions. you are responsible for your own actions.
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