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@pylapp Très beau visuel :)
Mais Signal n'est pas du tout dans le Fediverse
Ça reste une appli à utiliser à la place des autres options des gafam
@Kidon Je n’ai jamais affirmé que Signal était dans le fediverse 
D’ailleurs le visuel n’est pas du tout de moi.
Manque dans ce schéma XMPP et Matrix aussi je trouve.
@pylapp et en alternative à Insta il y a Cara aussi :)
@pylapp@framapiaf.org While I agree with most of these.
Please do not recommend Signal as this is proprietary software.
Also do not imply that Signal is part of the Fediverse, this is very misleading.
@sun@shitposter.world @pylapp@framapiaf.org Oh yeah I can imagine because otherwise he would've designed it with decentralization in mind.
@sun@shitposter.world @pylapp@framapiaf.org
he describes what Fedi became pretty accuratelyI don't like him already, I think Fedi is great. Why does he think this is bad?
he explains why he thinks it's bad
@sun@shitposter.world @pylapp@framapiaf.org >it extremely difficult to upgrade protocols and add features
This is a good thing actually. We should prefer a stable protocol and featureset. I really dislike the "move fast and break things" mentality.
I don't want things to break because some asshole decided they wanted to add a new shitfart feature, from a user perspective I like what I currently have.
I do prefer XMPP's approach over the Fediverse tho. You know, with an actual standards foundation defining RFCs instead of every project just kinda doing their own thing?
@newt@stereophonic.space @pylapp@framapiaf.org @sun@shitposter.world
why XMPP died out.What the fuck are you talking about I'm using XMPP right now?
@newt@stereophonic.space @pylapp@framapiaf.org @sun@shitposter.world And it's better than ever
Today, XMPP is a relic used only by a bunch of stubborn nerds. Just like IRC is.
Yes, I know that certain companies like Grindr use XMPP internally, but they might be using just about anything else since they don't federate.
@newt@stereophonic.space @pylapp@framapiaf.org @sun@shitposter.world
XMPP is a relic used only by a bunch of stubborn nerds.Good, that's just about everyone I want to talk to anyway.
@newt@stereophonic.space @pylapp@framapiaf.org @sun@shitposter.world I'm not arguing against the fact that ssh can be used a messaging protocol tho?
I would actually agree with that statement.
кину奇诺［防空識別區］
@newt What's wrong with XMPP, though? There's no alternative, superior standard or protocol that I know of which killed and replaced it. All these companies just locked things down to their own proprietary solutions. @pylapp @SuperDicq @sun
There are three massive issues:
1. Servers implement incompatible sets of XEPs and often fail to federate some stuff;
2. Clients are shit (especially when it comes to OMEME'o);
3. Lack of expected features like normal filesharing.
Every now and then I encounter a thread on fedi where someone whines that certain combinations of clients cannot talk to each other with OMEMO and this is funny as hell.
@newt@stereophonic.space @adiz@mtl.jinxian.casa @pylapp@framapiaf.org @sun@shitposter.world
From Matrix to Facebook Messenger and Telegram.Facebook Messenger and Telegram are not alternatives to XMPP, they are not decentralized.
Matrix is the only one that I consider an actual alternative to XMPP.
Personally I think as of right now the technical implementations of XMPP are much better so I still consider it the better option. Although I use both Matrix and XMPP.
>Facebook Messenger and Telegram are not alternatives to XMPP, they are not decentralized.
They aren't alternative because I can talk to girls on Telegram and I can't talk to girls on XMPP (no idea about FB, never used it). Therefore, if I want to avoid women as much as possible, XMPP is the only option.
@newt@stereophonic.space @pylapp@framapiaf.org @sun@shitposter.world @adiz@mtl.jinxian.casa I talk to girls on XMPP, but I don't understand why gender matters here.
@newt@stereophonic.space @pylapp@framapiaf.org @sun@shitposter.world @adiz@mtl.jinxian.casa I don't know why you see pride in the fact that you seek approval from uninteresting normie women.
Also, I'm a total normie.
@sun What isn't "good" that would otherwise be "good" but which would break things? Genuinely curious, because I kinda like things here as they are. @pylapp @SuperDicq
@sun@shitposter.world @adiz@mtl.jinxian.casa @pylapp@framapiaf.org I consider software good if it improves aspects of people's and does not actively make them worse so I consider Fediverse good.
@sun@shitposter.world @pylapp@framapiaf.org Even better*
ActivityPub is already good.
I love politics
@sun@shitposter.world @pylapp@framapiaf.org I mean I gotta say that maybe it's easier to coordinate things on XMPP is because the technology is just kinda normiecore and used by actual organizations and such. And they all just kind want the same thing?
On the contrary the entire Fediverse userbase consists entirely of us, the misfits and rejects of centralized social media.
The real reason why we can't coordinate anything is because the Fediverse userbase is probably the most diverse group of users I've ever seen share a single protocol.
We can't agree on anything, but that's probably good. So something will only really get implemented if it really is a good idea.
@sun @pylapp @SuperDicq @newt this passage from a GH issue captures it i believe:
> It is unlikely that we will ever federate with any servers outside of our control again, it makes changes really difficult.
would be interested in the essay and video though if you find it
@SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo @pylapp@framapiaf.org
Signal is proprietary softwareHuh, how so? According to both Wikipedia and Signal's Github repo, Signal (both server and client) is copyleft under AGPL-3.0. If you mean that Signal is centralized, run by Shithub, or otherwise run by sus corpos greedier than the entire Fortune 500 list, I can see how it can be proprietary (or as bad as proprietary). I feel that it's still acceptable ethically, though, especially for those still stuck on shitware like Whatsapp and Telegram.
@radmin@limepeeps.perchinup.top @pylapp@framapiaf.org Occasionally jumping your codebase on Github under a free license does not make your platform usable by people who care about freedom.
It also means that your source code needs to be up to date with the current version that your running and it must be free of binary blobs and nonfree dependencies and libraries.
For example Signal is not available in Fdroid because it does not comply with many of the Fdroid inclusion guidelines (which are already quite lax in my opinion).
https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android
https://github.com/signalapp/libsignal
https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Server
AGPL-3.0
Yes, it is not part of the fediverse and it relies on github (both through the repo, and through rust (rust's package manager can only manage libraries hosted on github)).
The application itself is free software.
@Haijo7@snac.haijo.eu The license does not matter if your software requires nonfree depedencies. It is still nonfree
I was not aware that it uses proprietary libraries. I just installed a foss fork called molly (which gets rid of these libraries, without losing compatibility).
Despite the fact signal relies on proprietary libraries (which seem to be present to interface with google play services, which is only possible if you've got those installed), I still think it is a good substitute for big tech messaging platforms. They are very much against sharing metadata. The fellow in charge used the following situation as an example; someone makes calls to a specific number regularly. One day they make a several hours long phone call to a hospital. Then they never call the number from before again.
The carrier doesn't know what was said during the calls (probably), but the metadata already tells the whole story.
I think this is an excellent example, so I thought it was worth sharing.
Not sure if this is true, but someone told me that signal is holding back cross platform messaging because of privacy concerns in the proposed concepts for the protocol to be used. (iirc the person who told me this said the protocol is being designed by the EU government, but I'm really not sure. I'll have to look into that sometime)
@Haijo7@snac.haijo.eu Yes, I can agree that Molly is free software. But Signal is not.
I do not care what bullshit "privacy concern" reason Signal makes up to not support federation of the protocol.
There are many other chat protocols that stay private and federate at the same time such as XMPP and Matrix. If Signal can not make it work with their protocol in field we call that a "skill issue".
In my book Signal is on exactly the same tier as Telegram:
* Only usable in a freedom respecting way if you fork the official client.
* Probably in reality not really that private, depends on centralized "just trust us bro" servers.
* At least normies want to use it?